The puzzle of shipping calculation

[brassandsilver]

There was a discussion about shipping rates on a different thread -http://forums.3dcart.com/general-configuration-questions/5712-anyone-using-priority-flat-rate-boxes.html. My problem is a bit different than the one posed by the original post, so I have begun a new thread to address my specific puzzle, which concerns inaccurate UPS rated being calculated. Here are the questions I was asked by elightbox in regards to this along with my answers in blue:

Three things to consider:
1. When figuring out 2nd day air in your system (Worldship or otherwise) are you entering the package dimensions.
A: I have been testing this both ways, with and without using package dimensions. For the most part, the pricing is less accurate when we enter the dimensions in 3dCart, and are closer to the correct amount when we use weight only.
2. Do you have negotiated rates setup in 3dcart?
A: I purposely did not set up negotiated rates in 3dCart, because the price quotes are already lower than the actual negotiated rates as it is. Having the system pull my negotiated rates would only make that worse, I would think. That said, when I do test this by having 3dCart apply the discounted rates, the pricing stays exactly the same.

3. Are both the dimensions in 3dcart and the dimensions you use for figuring out the $90 charge the same?
A: When I am testing specific shipments I do enter the exact dimensions in both 3dCart and Worldship. What I don’t know is how the systems account for these dimensions when the quantity ordered changes. I will give a specific scenario that just makes no sense to me when I test it, but 3dCart said it isn’t their problem. Here goes…


So, I am testing this with one specific product of ours. This item has a shipping weight of 7 pounds, and dimensions of 14x14x14. I add one of this item to the cart, and then get shipping quotes for a randomly selected zip code. Then I change the quantity to two, and get rates for the same zip code. After taking screen shots of those, I repeat the process, but after removing the dimensions and shipping by weight only. Then I get rates from UPS directly, again for quantities of 1 and two. I will attach screen shots of each scenario for you to review.

[brassandsilver]

Here are the screen shots of the UPS quotes. These do reflect our negotiated rates.

[brassandsilver]

What I find completely baffling here is the UPS 2nd Day Air quotes. For one piece, when using dimensions, the rate comes back at $101.56. When I increase the quantity to two items, the rate actually DROPS to $90.25. Using UPS directly to get the price quote, the rate is $71.41 for one item, and $142.82 for two items.

Why, why, why, would the rate quoted on my website GO DOWN when the number of items increases?!?!?! Again, I have submitted tickets about this twice, and last I heard from Support they said it wasn't their problem. It makes absolutely no sense. Any thoughts?

[GonzaloGil]

Can you please give me the ticket # where support told you it wasn't their problem?

[bmikarts]

Not sure why yours is not working correctly.

I have a very similar item ("Box Stock Project" 196cc OHV Racing Engine : Go Karts Parts: Racing Kart Parts: Engines: Frames: Tires: Versailles, Ohio: USA: Indoor Track: Tips: Chassis: Kits: GoKart: Briggs: Yerf Dog: Manco: Comet: Torque) and here is the setup:

Shipping Options:

One Box: checked

Weight: 23lb

Height: 15

Width: 12

Depth: 14

Ships by Itself: Checked


It is calculated correctly in 3dcart compared directly to my UPS shipping software when shipping to zip code 90210, for multiple quantities and expedited shipping methods.

Hope that helps.

Chad
bmikarts.com

[brassandsilver]

Can you please give me the ticket # where support told you it wasn't their problem?

Sure, it is Ticket ID: ATG-340-85663. When this ticket was first opened, the support agent was very thorough and helpful, and he agreed that something was wrong. When I called again to ask about it, that agent said everything is working just how it should and it wasn't 3dCart's problem. I asked that the ticket be escalated, and he said he would do that, but I have never heard anything else from support again. That was mid-March. If there is anything that can be done to help me get this figured out it would be hugely appreciated. There is just no way that shipping price should decrease when the quantity ordered increases. Thanks!

[brassandsilver]

Bump. Anybody have any suggestions about this? We have wasted a ton of hours trying to figure out how to correct the problem, but nothing seems to work. Thanks.

[brassandsilver]

You have got to be kidding me. I just got the standard email from Support asking if this issue has been resolved since they haven't heard from me in 48 hours. I haven't heard a word from them about this since mid-March. UGH!!!

[elightbox]

Patience!
Just keep at it with support. Your problem is well documented and they will fix it eventually. You just have to be persistent and reply with more explanations every time someone from support replies with half an answer and closes the ticket.

[brassandsilver]

I did get a response from them this morning. Here is their explanation:

The Ground rates increase because ground shipping only goes by weight unless it hits a certain dimensional threshold for the UPS dimensional rates to kick in. The other rates factor in dimensions and adding the second item makes the dimensions drop to 1x1x1. The only workaround for this issue would be to check the 'Ships by itself' option on the product.

Unfortunately I already tried that workaround, and it makes the rates way too high, so it isn't really an acceptable solution. Frustrated.

[elightbox]

This does not make sense. When you add a 2nd item both the weight and dimensions are added. Why would they default to 1x1x1. If they do default to 1x1x1 then it is a bug that should be fixed.

Although I don't think their explanation is correct.

I just tried with both a regular item and an oversize item. Both cost less for one than two. The oversize item went from $77 to $251 when increased from one to two. It has dimensions of 33x15x19 and weights 33 lbs
Ships by itself is NOT checked

I changed the weight to two lbs, cleared cache and went through checkout again, and the shipping costs did not change. So it is working by size and the size increased from one to two.

Why don't you create an item with this info and see if the shipping increases from one to two.

[brassandsilver]

Thanks for your input. I doesn't make any sense to me either. I created a product with the same size and weight that you did, same shipping settings. It did go up (slightly when increasing the quantity to two, but the rates are still wildly inaccurate. I will attach the screen shots. The rate for ground shipping two items only went up by $3.20?!?! I just don't know what to make of it.

[brassandsilver]

The latest (and basically the same except it makes even less sense) is this:
"When multiple items are sent in one shipment, but their combined weight is still less than the max box size specified in shipping settings, the combined weight is sent to the carrier, but the box dimensions are sent as 1 x 1 x 1. The only way around this is 'ship by itself'."

As I already told them, checking ships by itself overcharges my customers by more than $100. Also, unless my admin is different than everyone else's, there is no maximum box size setting, only maximum weight. This makes no sense. I can't believe this has been a problem for so many months, and doesn't appear that it will ever be taken seriously.

[JR123]

I know all too well about this. I've tried looking for a plug-in or app that is compatible with 3D Cart to "fix" our shipping woes (doesn't exist).

About 10% of our orders are correct on the shipping...the other 90% are split between way over cost and way under cost. I have tried tweaking a thousand different things to no avail.

It's especially hard when there are oversized boxes (+$8.50 fee from UPS per oversize box). For the most part our "small packages" -- that is, normal sized boxes that are not oversize -- calculate just fine if those products are NOT purchased in conjunction with products that ship in an oversized box.

I don't know what to do either. A long time ago we asked other carts if their algorithms would be able to handle the complex shipping that we do...none seemed to have anything that would be any better than 3D Cart's way of calculating shipping (aside from a $50,000+ custom-coded-from-scratch website/cart)...so we've stuck with 3D Cart but it's not an ideal situation.

[brassandsilver]

Yes, I certainly get that it is a highly complicated thing. That said, I have never expected or asked for precision. I don't think, however, that it is asking too much to not have the shipping charge go down when the number of products ordered increases. That is just not acceptable. Neither is the only workaround they will suggest, which then overcharges by a ridiculously high amount. Support has no other suggestions, though, and is apparently unwilling to do anything further. I give up. I will just end up taking a massive loss every time this happens.