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Bad mood today, and have to rant on 3dcart's design again

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  • Bad mood today, and have to rant on 3dcart's design again

    3dcart is awesome in so many ways, but your templates suck. Even the ones you customized for your customers.

    First you use table based design on everything, and I mean everything. I mean its like you are trying to get into the Guinness book of record for having the most tables in any template and therefore decide to stuff in as many as possible. Not only is it bad form, and causes jumpy loading, but all those cellpaddings and cellspacing stuffing themselves into each other makes it really hard to adjust the spacing. If you ever wonder why 3dcart's templates always look slightly off, it is because of the little extra spaces between the tables are impossible to get rid off, and that makes everything hard to align. It is these little things like spacing details around text and photo placement that makes a website look put together.

    I don't know who does the designs but they seriously suck. Fonts and spacing are off. Color combination is wrong. The size and font type using in headings, sub-headings, product heading and regular content totally do not complement each other, and therefore makes everything look off.

    The client gallery samples look good as a photo. But when I searched for them (because they are not linked) and click into their websites, you can immediately see how off some of design elements are.


    Sorry, bigcommerce and shopify just put up more samples of their client sites, and their designs look so put together. I know 3dcart has better back end, more features, and everything, but can you guys just upgrade your templates already.
    Last edited by widgets; 03-08-2011, 11:28 PM.

  • #2
    Seems like you're having some serious issues editing your design, not sure if that's actually related to the templates, css or tables; but we'll be glad to help if you like.

    I have to disagree with the opinion about our designers, there are really impressive templates that you can see at

    The color combination is definitely a matter of personal taste, I took the liberty of checking your website on your signature, and the color scheme which is different than provided from the template is very unique, and while it's a good fit for your business, it's doesn't necessarily apply to other types of business. Templates on the other hand need to be generic enough to be used by anyone.

    Keeping in mind that templates are using both tables and CSS, which we consider to be more efficient. A tableless template is possible and can be done by editing the front-end, we have many certified designers that have successfully done this when specific needs from their clients require them to do so, you can view the list of certified designers at,


    • #3
      I have no problems editing the design ... if I have the time. If you look at of, you can see that I had managed to clean up the a lot of the code down to minimum number of tables, with one or two sleek improvements, and no content reformatting jerkiness when loading. But when the new version of 3dcart rolled out, I just don't have the time to adjust it again, so I ended up trying out your new templates, hoping minimum work is required to clean up the code, but when I look at the code for the new designs, I just gave up. Plus that store is dormant now anyway pending a relaunch.

      But I appreciate the reply and disagreement. I will still be moving yet another store over in the next few months, because despite this, overall, I think you guys are still the most comprehensive hosted cart.


      • #4
        I have written about my experiences before with CSS... but all those tables drove me crazy as well... so I got rid of them all.

        Now when new features come out, like the social features did a few months back, its easy to just cut and paste that code into the tabeless template I have created.

        It is possible to get ride of every table, though I did not do that with the checkout... so for checkout I have there millions of tables wrapped up with a div.

        You can check out

        Its so much easier to customize the site when you get ride of the tables.


        • #5
          I'm still setting up the store, I agree completely about the tables. I'm also getting rid of most of them and replacing the rest with much simpler ones sans extra cells for spacing (margins & padding, anyone?). And finding all the required code in the jumble is an exercise in frustration. The template reference guide ( shows all the code blocks but none of the other functional code.
          If they put together one stripped designer's "template", with nothing in it but all the necessary code for each function, I think it would GREATLY simplify life for those of us who are trying to genuinely customize our sites and write clean code.


          • #6
            Just to be fair.

            All you notepad and CSS fans hate tables and don't understand how to work with tables.

            I for one love tables and layout grides. For me they are what they are everytime without fail. Good web design software will clearly identify nested tables inside nested tables.

            CSS is great to reduce page weight. I have built many web sites and have had no problem getting high ranking pages with tables.

            If you hate tables you can always design your own template and stop bashing the great template options available here at 3dcart.

            Now if we were talking ethics you would here a much different tone.

            Rock On!
            Go Live Industries


            • #7
              Originally posted by Go Live View Post
              Just to be fair.

              CSS is great to reduce page weight. I have built many web sites and have had no problem getting high ranking pages with tables.
              The main reason I use css over tables is the ability to very quickly compleatly change the look. I am always designing, and re designing my product pages (untill i find the perfect layout). Its nice to just change to few lines of code to move something from left to right, or up or down.


              • #8
                I'll have to agree with Golive...I love working with tables, too. Our site's both rank page one for most of our keywords. We switched a few months back to a different cart (all css based) and working with css was fine, too, but I prefer the tables. And like golive said, you can still rank highly with tables.

                I've been designing sites since 1998 and this one here since 2000, and after all the carts 3d's templates are just like what everyone else offers as far as colors, design layouts etc. they all look a like, customizing has to be done by the store owner based upon their taste.

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                Shadow Trailers


                • #9
                  At this point, I don't even care about being tableless.

                  How about just less tables? Just get rid of the unnecessary tables. Does the category header really need its own table? Does the product description label need to end up in a table within a table within a table within a table within a table ...
                  How about limiting the table to 4 levels deep instead of 10 levels deep.

                  I will be helping a store move over to 3dcart In May, and thinking about customizing the template and wasting time getting rid of tables is not making me excited.

                  I understand that it is easier and logical to lay out elements with tables, but there is a point of diminishing advantage (and increased frustration due to spaghetti html) when tables go ridiculous deep.
                  Last edited by widgets; 04-09-2011, 06:31 PM.